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Rulings
From time to time the staff of Project 1999 will make new rulings or clarifications of the existing rules in the forum. However, it's easy for those clarifications/rulings to get lost, so this page is an attempt to archive significant staff posts.
Corpse Expiration/Recovery
Lore Item(-only) Corpses Will Not Be Recovered
The staff does not #bury corpses just because there are "corpsed" items on them. We will not, however, summon any corpses that have rotted with said item(s).
Camps
Multiple Items From One Camp
Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.
This basically means if you are camping an item and someone else is waiting to take the camp from you, you will have to hand off the camp after you receive 1 of your item. It is primarily mentioning AC camp in OOT, but could apply to all camps.
Pyzjn is No Exception: Her Spawn Points Can Be Camped, Like Quillmane
The PNP clearly states you can claim a single spawn point in an open-outdoor zone. This is more intended for camps like Hadden, Stormfeather or OOT AC. But some players are petty enough to sit on a single spawn point like a HG or a black bear.
Pyzjn is no exemption to this policy. She has multiple spawn locations and can be triggered. Not exactly like Quilmane but close enough for this example. Like it's been said before, sure you can "camp" them but you need to have players on every spawn point and get FTE within a reasonable amount of time. If you have a team trying to spawn one of these mobs and another player sees Pyzjn or QM wondering around, the player assigned to that spawn location messed up. It's that simple.
Something else to consider, this policy was created to give players some sort of guide how to behave because without it there would be KSing and a very long convoluted set of rules.
The bottom line is, don't be a douche out there. If a player is camping Oasis Specs, BBM dorfs, or SK Spire Gnolls, find something else to do. It's not worth the conflict.
Hill Giants Are FTE Unless You Camp One Spawn
So I've spent literally hundreds of hours killing Hill Giants and the rule of the land was always HGs are FTE. Today when I mentioned that to someone, he said they are not and there is no where in the rules or forums that say they are. I looked myself to prove him wrong and came up with nothing.
So, did I float along these past years on some fluke that everyone who happened to be around me considered them FTE? Like I put up some shit with such as a monk killing every single HG all afternoon because he could engage quicker than me for some reason. But I didn't complain because I adamantly believed they were FTE. Did I do this for nothing?
You can camp a single Hill Giant if that's the only one you are clearing. You must near that spawn, not kill any other Hill Giants, and engage shortly after spawn (before it starts to roam).
Quillmane is Not Camped Unless All Four Spawn Points Are Camped
TT cycles have always been FTE Quillmane is weird because previously it's depended on which GM you end up talking to (like a lot of things...), but the most common response has been: if you have people at all 3 spawn locations, with a 4th killing PHs, then you can claim it as "camped." if you're soloing it, it becomes FTE. makes very little sense logically, but there it is.
This is how every staff member should be responding to it. The catch is, you better get FTE within a few seconds of QM spawning. If QM is pathing and someone else gets FTE, you're SOL.
Guidelines/rulings are handled this way to help prevent the need for any staff intervention. If you happen to be running through SK and see QM wandering around, kill it, then another player claims you KSd it how do you know they aren't lying? It's a big zone so that QM could have been wandering around for 10 minutes.
Don't Steal a Named Mob Another Player Spawned (Even Outdoors); Also Player-Defined Camps Explained
You've just described player convention camps vs. GM enforced camps.
When the staff enforces camp rules, their goal is to force players to share scarce resources. Thus, the rules work towards that goal, and outside of dungeons: [quoting another player] "you can only camp 1 spawn point in that zone."
That's it: you and whoever you are competing with get 1 spawn point each, and everything else you both have to FTE (ie. you have to be the "first to engage" the monster and it becomes your's). And this is only when someone else shows up; before that you can camp as much as you want.
Inside dungeons you can potentially camp a single "camp" (typically a single room) instead of just 1 spawn point, but again the focus is on forcing players to share the content as much as possible. This is why Crypt in Seb is commonly considered a single camp by players, but if pressed the staff will let individual players camp individual rooms in it.
And that leads us to player-defined camps, which instead are focused on creating a group of mobs that a single player or group can kill within the zone's respawn time. For instance, a single player can solo the LFay Sisters (or a lot of the mobs around Grachnist, or a lot of Bloodgills ... or even all four rooms of the Crypt) in the time it takes for them to respawn, so all of those places are commonly considered a single camp by players.
IF a player wants they can ask the GMs to force a player to share the Sister spawns, in violation of the player defined camp. The staff will back them on this, because it's an outdoor zone and you can only have one spawn point in an outdoor zone ... but they will strongly encourage players to respect the player-defined camp first.
From their perspective, both parties would probably be happier if player #1 could just keep doing all the Sisters, and player #2 went to a different area. But since the server rules force sharing whenever two or more players both want those resources, they will enforce splitting Sisters if a player really wants (server rules trump player-defined camps). Some people believe this sort of thing will happen on Green, because so many players will be competing for popular camps like Sisters.
And of course all of the above is now covered on http://wiki.project1999.com/Camp_Rules
Pretty accurate. EQ is a very social game, we expect players to communicate and work things out between themselves. You have no idea how many players are very quick to /petition instead of opening communication with the other player(s).
People keep bringing up the WW Goblins, it's an open outdoor zone... so FTE. But really, if you see someone keeping it clear you have a couple options.
1. Move on.
2. Split the spawns up.
3. Help clear.
Sitting there waiting for the named to spawn without helping is a pretty shitty thing to do.
Like I've said before, we don't want to get involved in camp disputes. Try to work things out, keep the hysterics down. It's just pixels.
The "Unwritten" Rules of Camps ... Written Down Finally!
The game is fairly complicated due to there being many types of NPCs/mobs and camps in this game. If you're ever set on camping something and want the guidelines /petition is always an option. But don't lawyer quest us, use common sense. If you don't have that, don't play here. And again, these are BASIC guidelines to follow. If a camp dispute does happen you really, really don't want us involved because there is a chance you or both parties could be kicked out of the zone.
There's two basic zone categories.
Open outdoor zones and dungeon type zones.
Open outdoor zones could be anything from the Karanas, Wastes or Commons.
Dungeon type zones could be anything from MM, COM, hhk, Guks, or Sebilis.
These are very basic guidelines when it comes to camps in this game.
For open outdoor zones you can claim a single spawn point. This may include SF, Hadden or OOT AC. If you're camping these mobs you need to get FTE within a reasonable amount of time.
For dungeon type zones our general guideline is line of sight(LOS)/agro range. This works for pretty much everything. Couple exemptions may be Fungi King or Captain in Karnors because it's not exactly practical to camp on top or within LOS/agro range of their spawns.
Also keep in mind, above is how we as staff see it. There's also player defined camps out there we don't enforce but HIGHLY encourage players follow. Player defined camps may include Sisters in lfay or Gnoll Spires in SK.
TLDR: Don't be a douche.
Does that help?
Further Clarification on Sebilis King
The above ruling, that the Myconid Spore King in Sebilis could be camped without remaining on his spawn point (or even holding down the "brain room") was further reinforced in-game by GM Blistig, as detailed in this thread.
NOTE: There is no specific quote to repeat here, but it's clear from the reported GM interaction that players "dont have to hold down brain to take the camp".
Rules Breakdown of A4 Camp in Mischief Plus General Camp Splitting Rules
I recently started to camp Alice 4 in PoM after not going there for a few years. A few years ago, 22 and Brenn/Grenn were the only 2 thrones dropper camp. . Due to some infamous like Svenn, Lunatick and others, those were considered 2 separated camps cause you didnt had line of sight on both camps. Now with the addition to Glonk/Grink is it now 4 camps?
I tried to avoid being a dick so far and claiming a camp while the the actual camper is away killing another mob. So, I would like to know if theres a ruling possible to be made there. Usually Brenn/Grenn is main room and if the farmer at least pull them all there it could avoid some problems, cause the dude sometimes leave that room for 15mins killing other PHs then gets back and consider it his camp and some drama may follow.
Anyway, I was wondering if you could make a ruling here Menden, it would be appreciated. Thanks
A multi-spawn camp is two NPCs close to each other (typically within line of site, and usually in the same room) in an indoor zone. PoM isn't an indoor zone, ergo it has no (multi-mob) camps. But the way Menden phrased things, it could be considered a "dungeon". Either way, the only potential "camp" that would qualify in that area would be the twins; all the other "camps" there are one mob per room.
Like any outdoor zone (or indoor/dungeon zone where a multi-spawn camp ruling doesn't apply) each player can camp a single spawn point: the gorilla, or the mouse, or Twenty-Two, or the twins (maybe just one, but since they share a room and PoM is arguably a dungeon I'd imagine they count as one camp).
You have to pick one and only that one is "yours" ... but you can still do the other mobs at A4 (or the rest of Alice), as long as no one else is claiming them as their one spawn point. If you pick the gorilla, and someone else picks Twenty-Two you can't kill Twenty Two ... but you can kill either the mouse or either one of the twins, as long as you beat the guy at Twenty-Two to be the "first to engage" them.
All of that is 100% separate from what the players consider to be "a camp", and the staff would of course encourage you to work things out with any other players there rather than bother them.
How'd I do?
Pretty good, here's how we expect players to behave when it comes to camps.
If a player/group is holding multiple camps in a zone, that's fine as long as no one else wants them. As soon as another player/group wants one the camps the holder gets the option which single camp they prefer. The new player/group gets to pick their camp and the rest become FTE unless both players/groups work out a deal to split them up. But players must communicate in some fashion so there is no conflict. So, what Loramin said was pretty darn accurate.
A more specific situation that comes up often is Bards and Nobles in hhk, many, many players consider this one camp. But based on the guidelines above, this is a dungeon type zone. So LOS/Agro guidelines come into play even though they are fairly close to eachother. So if a player is holding both and another player shows up, the original player needs to pick one.
Sirken always told me, camp in the room that has the target you want.
Are Verina Tomb/Vessel Drozlin Campable? (No, They Are FTE)
The recent call that involved DiogenesThaDogg never felt 100% right to me, a lot of arguments could be made for FTE or campable. I compared VT/VD to Hadden and SF, but Llandris made a very compelling argument which I'll list below.
I brought the topic up with other Senior Staff and we combed through countless past calls relating to these two spawns. The overwhelming majority is that it's FTE, not campable.
I put non-raid, single target, no PH spawns into two categories.
1. Campable, but must keep guards clear. Sir Lucan Drusella Sathir
2. Campable, but must get FTE within a reasonable amount of time. Hadden Stormfeather
I originally put VT/VD into this category but because they are generally killed with 2+ players, this makes it really hard.
Quote: Llandris: A player "camping" must have friends with characters camped near by or get players mobilized to this remote zone pretty quickly. Or if it was a solo, a skilled enchanter would have to abandon the camp to grab a pet. As we see it this goes against the "stalling" or "kill within a reasonable amount of time" guideline we have stated countless times for other camps. So I can understand the confusion among players(and staff apparently).
So, we're making this official. A third category.
3. FTE, let the race begin. Verina Tomb Vessel Drozlin
I'll see if I can talk Nilbog/Rogean into putting a FTE emote on these two mobs which would make it pretty clear what kind of encounter this is and stop any confusion that may come up in the future.
I apologize for any confusion I may have caused, but going forward you have this post to go on as a concrete guideline backed up by the Server GM and other Senior Staff.
If anyone has shared the screenshot that DiogeneThaDogg has posted, please remove it or edit the post stating the call has been reversed.
Hadden, Camp Holding, and AFKing While Camping
Hadden is campable.
Just because you have the last time of death and login does not mean that you automatically get the camp. If someone is there you should use common sense and see if they are camping Hadden. If they are, then move along and find something else to do. You are free to check back later to see if the camp is open. This is the same as most other camps in outdoor open areas.
In regards to AFK, you are allowed to go AFK for a reasonable amount of time in between spawns as long as you are there when the MOB spawns.
Finally, a word on FTE and camp disputes. When camp disputes are petitioned we are seldom presented with hard evidence. Essentially these are he said she said type petitions. More often than not, staff becomes involved after the fact. This means we are having to weigh the stories of the stakeholders along with any evidence. Server logs do often come into play. If a player or group is flagged for kill stealing it can muddy the waters.
Clarification: Stormfeather Loot Rights Can Be Sold
Menden later clarified that you can sell loot rights for Stormfeather, you just can't camp him repeatedly in succession:
So for lucan you need to be not afk and actively killing the guards in his room (or an aftermath will come and take the camp from you) but for stormfeather you can afk flop right up until spawn happens and nobody else can contest the camp...
Can we get some consistency with the server rules anytime? Thanks!
For Lucan, you must show you are actively killing Lucan's guards to claim the camp, that's pretty simple. Hell, he has a much shorter spawn time so there's plenty of lucans to go around. It's been this way for a long long time.
For SF, would the community honestly want us to switch the way we judge this camp and say you must actively kill cougars(or whatever, with lack of guards) within the range of the spawn location? That's one long camp. Pretty dumb.
Quoting Menden "Selling SF loot rights, this is a douche move, I will suspend you for it under PNP."
So. Damn. Convoluted. The camp is intimidating because of the time involved, the mixed up rules...and now I find out loot rights are illegal to sell?
Cue the losing trombone sound from Price is Right.
Yeah sorry. That wasn't fair and a pretty BS response from me. Let me elaborate.
Ultimately we want to prevent is a player camping SF, selling loot rights then not giving up the camp.
So if you want to sell loot rights, that's fine I guess. But you must follow the "kill in a reasonable amount of time" guideline. And give up the camp to the next person on the list. This same thing goes with AC camp or any lore items. If you are the buyer or seller, I encourage you to screenshot all conversations so it doesn't look like you ninjalooted.
I want to bring up one more point because it's come in up in game a couple times. If you are camping SF and you are AFK during the time it spawned. Another player grabs FTE prior to the 5ish minutes(so it doesn't path too far away), I would tag it asap. This will show us in our logs that you were active. If we see you didn't tag it till after that 5ish minutes, you will probably be SOL.
It's usually best to leave SF be till after that 5ish minutes, but I can understand you are trying to prevent a wandering SF so the camp holder will see it. If you are camping SF, be at your computer during the window, makes things easier and it's the right thing to do.
EDITOR'S NOTE: The rest of this page still needs to be re-done with then new formatting ... sorry.
Holding a Camp While AFK
In regards to questions about the requirements to maintain a camp of Stormfeather (a mob with an 18-hour window who can skip spawns, making it a potentially 24+ hour camp) ...
Staying awake for the duration of SF spawn is dumb and bad for your health, think about it.
Players can absolutely go AFK while camping SF, but they must engage within a reasonable amount of time. I would say 5ish minutes for this encounter. This mob is soloable so no real force is needed. With that, if Player A was camping SF, SF pops, Player A is throwing some buffs on and it takes 5 minutes and 10 seconds to do this(plus med time), I wouldn't advise Player B to attack SF, that'd be a douche move. If SF pops and Player A attacks SF and obviously kiting(delaying), then use your best judgement. But if you are going to step in and nab someone's SFs, there's always a chance you will be suspended so don't cry to me, be damn well sure you are in the right because if that kiting player is trying to slow/snare/gain mana/whatever and you use this post as an excuse to attack SF, I will come down on you hard.
Also with SF, there's no PHs or guards to keep down. It's no different than AFKing between spawns for any other camp like Ass/sup, oot AC, frenzy, ect...
Responding to a CC is not a requirement, but it's a nice thing to do.
If you fail to maintain a presence in the zone (preferably main), you forfeit your spot on the camp. For a camp like Stormfeather, that would mean that nobody is on the list unless physically (both in zone and NOT afk) at the time that the camp is ready to be turned over.
Ie those that want to be on the list cannot be logged in elsewhere for any reason. Otherwise those willing to forfeit right to play in other capacity are hosed.
For a camp like SF that has 36hr spawn + chance to skip? Going afk to sleep or do whatever else is A-ok in my book ... as long as you are at keyboard and ready when it pops.
The thing is, lists are really driven by the players, if you are the list keeper it's in your rights to tell people if they want on the list, they must stay in the zone.
Here's the thing folks, we want people to have fun, but there are lots of players who like to abuse what we say and what few rules we have out there. If we suspect you are lawyerquesting or being a dick, we have no issue suspending you for PNP. If you feel I'm not being fair, go speak to Llandris, Braknar or Sirken. Don't be a jerk to me, I'm really here to help you guys enjoy the game.
If you ever need help understanding how a camp in particular works, don't be afraid of posting in the petitions / exploits forums asking a question, I'm happy to work it out with you. But keep in mind, we don't have solid rules written down for specific camps because every situation is different, but we do state guidelines here and there.Camp Waiting Lists
Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. However, and this is very important, two things must happen in order for this to be a legitimate hand-off:
1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so. We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person coming in to take the camp in these situations as CSR staff, so waiting a bit longer will never hurt.
2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.
Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.High Keep Basement: Up to four camps
In the essence of transparency, I'm going to comment and clarify Cylocks ruling. The basement of HK CAN be split into 4 separate camps, depending on the amount of players in zone willing to contest. After discussion with the rest of the staff, it is of utmost importance that us, as a staff, are all on the same page. Happy hunting!
Camps and Power-Levelers/Swarm Kiters
as far as dungeons go, they are made up by camps. no person or group is allowed to own more than one camp (unless theres no other players around contesting the zone/camp). so if you are in Crushbone, or Mistmoore, or Unrest, or any dungeon, and a PLer is claiming more than one camp, the PLer has to give up one camp (as chosen by the person that owned both). if the PLer refuses to give up one of his multiple camps, you should /petition in game and then take a camp.
as far as swarm kiting bards, some earlier poster hit the nail on the head. the problem isnt that bards round up a hundred mobs; the problem is that it TAKES SO LONG to round up and then kite down the mobs, and as previously mentioned, can prevent anyone else from seeing a pop for over an hour. ive seen this in OoT, DL, and OT entirely too often, and i have told players repeatedly that if you can not find a mob because some one is kiting more than 4 of them, feel free to peel one off. no staff member is going to give a player grief for peeling 1 mob off a bard thats kiting an entire zone (or an entire island in the OoT situations).
There is no "Grace Period" for Losing Camps (Unless the Server Comes Down)
What she said was that we're not going to give you obnoxious players the benefit of the doubt when no one officially witnessed the alleged "pathing bug" happen. Dying to a pathing bug at seb scarabs would definitely be the first time it's been heard of. Rough translation for the simple: It's a bullshit story to retake a camp lost to a pull failure. There is no grace period to retake a camp, except on server reboots. Guess what, the server didn't reboot. If you can't keep up with the conversation, you shouldn't join in at all.
Sebilis Crypt is Four Camps
Seb is a dungeon type zone.
Crypt is 4 camps, we've ruled this way on both servers for a very long time.
Player Agreements to Roll on Mobs
If everyone else is rolling and you decide that it doesn't apply to you, you're gonna have a bad time.
Character Changes
A character's deity can not be changed
Is it possible to change your Deity?
no, you can not :(
Log Parsing Programs
Log Parsing Programs Are Allowed
Programs that parse the log file are fine, as long as they do not do any type of automatic control/response/manipulation/macro on your character in place of manual control.
Using an IP Exemption to Transfer Items Faster
IP Exemptions Should Not Be Used to Transfer Items Faster
Player: Is this 2boxing:
Log on blue99 with Account 1
But load the game and at Log in screen for Account 2
Account 1 drops items and then /exit out
Log in with Account 2, then log on blue99, pick up items
Account 1 character still there, but obviously LD
Loading up 2 clients on 1 PC is not why we grant IP exemptions. I would advise against it
Selling Character Names (For Plat)
Selling bad names is illegal (but, presumably, selling "good" names is ok)
It's illegal to sell bad names though
(Raid) Mistakes
If you train another guild's tracker you must make it right with them
Note*:If you train another guild's trackers, you need to make it right with them afterwards. If you are a regular member that messed up and aren't sure what to do, then you should contact an officer and ask how to handle the situation (this is one of the reasons guilds have officers).
If you make a mistake, you should try to do everything you can to make it right
Note*:If you make a mistake, you should try to do everything you can to make it right. What you absolutely should not do is turn around and capitalize on your error at the expense of another guild.
Selling MQs (Multi-Quests)
The staff will only get involved in Multi-Quest trades if a player actually "scams" another player:
These go with our "Don't be a douche" clause.
RMT (Real Money Transfers)
No bans for (only) dropping/picking up items or for large trades
I'm just gonna go ahead and say this, we don't ban people for dropping or picking up items, nor do we ban players simply for large one way trades. There is no magical alarm that goes off when these things happens, and to be perfectly honest, these things happen all the time, every day, without people catching bans. If your account was banned for RMT, then your account is in someway connected to a person we know for certain was RMTing. Keep up with your petition in the forum if you made one and answer the questions that are presented to you. I'm not going to explain why we respond the way we do to catch RMT. But do know that if your account got hit, while it doesn't mean you 100% RMT'd, it does mean there's a link between your account and a RMT seller that was recently busted.
You can be banned for buying pizza with plat
Player: Buying pizza with Plat RMT?
Sirken: yes, and you can be banned for it
Rule Changes
Rules are not applied retroactively
because the bit you bolded in your quote was not added until 10/18 and the petition was before that. this may be a shock, but rules dont retroactively apply.
